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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

Pedophile pete (google if you wish) "played" with the boys 3-28-81,in Essen,West Germany (God, so Cold War)(Date from Deadbase 9). When I heard gd do baba it was difficult for me to decide if this was one the lowest points of their career. France?, LMSYBA?, ITSF?, Baba?, and a few others I don'T care to dredge up. I would rather hear Donna sing Don't Get Fooled Again (great 'lyrics' though RBNW) then Daltry. The Who like almost all English bands, well for lack of eloquence this morning, Suck. And they (the English) claim to have invented punk. Just like with my Irish ancestors, taking what doesn't belong to them. I am sure that all the blues tunes they played in the 60's to gain fame were carefully researched so the musicians and writers could get credit and royalties due to them. Contrast JG and Elizabeth Cotton.

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-04-17 21:17:08

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 9:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

while it's true that there are those who will quibble over who 'invented' Punk music, any serious literature that i've read on the genre, from either side of the divide, gives the nod to the Velvet Underground & the Stooges as the true precursors and progenators of the punk aesthetic, or, at least what in retrospect is considered the roots of Punk

however, while the British may not have had the equivalent of the Velvets or the Stooges, the Brits damn sure put their stamp on what later became recognized as Punk in the popular or mainstream perception, largely (possibly exclusively) due to the Sex Pistols, who are responsible for both putting Punk on the map and destroying it at the same time; what followed later could only, then, be nothing more than the creation of the music industry, and 'bands' who got on stage and acted how they thought Punk should act, based upon what was then popularized in the media, i.e., the crap music that was the Sex Pistols and their in-bred offspring

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 17, 2010 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

But I do believe that songs such as Substitute , You really Got Me, Pictures of Lily, moved the youth into what would become the British Punk scene. The Real Punk scene as you said started in the seedy New york club scene, with bands such as you named

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 12:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

i agree with with what you say, and of all the bands of the British Invasion of the '60s, the Who & the Animals were the only bands i ever had any time for

and, i think it's safe to say that a myriad number of influences, even those not so obvious, contributed to what later (and even retrospectively) was labeled 'Punk'



This post was modified by Arbuthnot on 2010-04-17 19:44:17

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 17, 2010 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

Arbuthnot I totally agree re:VU and Iggy. I'll throw in the early Clash as a decent band (Johnny Ramone in the great doc. Ramones:End of the Century said that the Clash were the only ones that came close to their sound (in a good way-which for Johnny Ramone is like a compliment from Miles). I remember the SP "tour" and the media circus and following long and barren 80's. Talk about underground music. Too bad so much anti-gd in that crowd. Still I think I converted a few. Still love both styles. Also for VU check out the Quine Tapes- VU in SF, @ the Family Dog and the Matrix , in NOV '69 doing a 38 min. Sister Ray(among many other gems).

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-04-17 17:47:41

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Apr 17, 2010 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

I put the MC5 at or near the top of the punk movement pioneers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocwZKIUH650&;feature=related

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 17, 2010 3:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

Fred "Sonic" Smith married a gal that deserves some mention...

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

most definitely!

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 18, 2010 2:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

Testify, my brother.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

hell yeah, i think i have that 'Sister Ray', but off the 'Dispatches from the Dream Factory', a great collection of early VU, '66-69 ... do check out as well, if you haven't already, the 'Sister Ray' from The Gymnasium April '67, NYC, i think it's my favorite version

in '66 Lou was singing 'when i stick a spike into my vein...', and the Beatles wanted to hold your hand...

i believe the distinction & difference is quite evident

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Apr 17, 2010 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

In '66 the Beatles were doing "Got to get you into my life" about marijuana, "She said, she said" about an acid trip George and John took with Peter Fonda, and "Tomorrow Never Knows" which is most definitely about tripping.

The Stones "Jumping Jack Flash" in 1968 is about shooting up heroin & cocaine.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Apr 17, 2010 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

Arb, do you think there's some kind of "extra credit" given to any "punk" band that sings about heroin? i'm not trolling you, i'm seriously curious cuz it seems like you're arguing that the velvet underground (who btw i think suck and were never punk in any way shape or form) should be considered the godfathers of punk cuz they were singing about heroin while the stones were singing about girls.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

"should be considered the godfathers of punk cuz they were singing about heroin"

absolutely not, and that definitely is not the gist of what i stated about VU, they would have been considered (i believe) the origin of the Punk aesthetic (along with the Stooges (and MC5 as someone else mentioned) had Lou not been singing about hard-core drug use, and certainly the VU were not the first band/artist to sing about drugs (wasn't implying that either), but Lou certainly didn't dance around the issue with metaphors, psychedelic meanderings & imagery to get his point across

and like i said, there were many influences on Punk, not all of them as evident as others, but from what i've read (and i certainly haven't read everything on the topic), the VU are largely considered the roots of what later became Punk music (the VU were not Punk per se, just one helluva major influence)

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Poster: fireeagle Date: Apr 17, 2010 10:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

stones invented (almost) everything

satisfaction was the first punk song ever

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 17, 2010 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

i'm not a Stones fan at all, but i do respect that's bands contribution to the genre and talent for sure

i give the nod to 'I Wanna Be Your Dog' as the first "Punk" song

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 17, 2010 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

I appreciate the "punk" movement far more now than "in the day"...just had to chime in that at the time we didn't know what to make of it all, but defn thought that both Heavy Metal (BlSabb) and Punk (et al. mentioned above) were just sorta the opposite of "pop", and somehow we had no appreciation for them...we viewed them as somehow the "same" as "pop" if that makes any sense (anti matter and matter...you know, Spock with facial hair and an attitude vs Spock without, is still just Spock...that make any better sense?).

Went on to really appreciate the Police, which of course, are "pop and punk" combined, depending on who you ask...and then some of the early manifestations discussed above. But at the time, it sounded like so much "noise" and when asked to defend the DEAD (we often were) against the youngsters bringing up punk/heavmetal, we always felt we had someting much more substantive to say...besides, Pig could've wupped ass on any scranny punk singer...not that this means squat; I abhor violence of any kind.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

WT I am an eighties kid, but my uncle was THE LEAD SINGER IN A ROCK N' ROLL BAND or that's how I felt as a kid being their occasional "roadie", getting into bars quite underage, hanging with musicians before they had to "practice" before the gig( I actually bought that for about 2 years), ect. I remember them straddling the heavy(Zeppelin) vs punk (Romones)line and the cliques. Heads were definitely not cool or accepted No reason- All action (PF)said the heavy/punks. My uncle played @
CBGB's, Toads and the Agoras but that was pretty much it. I was lucky to have that exposure as a tot. Never understood the great divide(punk vs dead). Still don't. Finally,The Police Mr. Tell?

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-04-17 21:55:08

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

So, we may have had somewhat "parallel" experiences (uh-oh, Star Trek ref again???), in that I was a roadie/soundman for a DEAD coverband in HS (early 70s)!

With lyrics coming out of AmBeat/Work, we felt that we had a lot more to say than the other folks that were all about angst, death, noise, etc., etc., (though some of that was expressed in the 60s), and thus, though "uncool" by defn felt "more cool" if you follow...

But, when it comes to the Police, as expressed many times here, I rank SCope as one of the top drummers, period. And, though I hate most everything about him, Sting is an amazing bass player and could sing...still, yuck with respect to most of what he says, stands for, etc., etc.

So yeah, I have to rank the Police highly...lyrically, "popish", but still--it defn worked. Sorta like CCR but with real players?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 17, 2010 2:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

WT-Actually kinda put a little foot in mouth here. Love S. Copeland. He is one of the greats. I would suffer through Summers coloring and Sumner in general to listen to Copeland. Yeah and O.K. some of their songs where alright and...... let my backtracking begin! I plead no contest. I was forced to listen to rock stations. And WELL AFTER TEN OR TWENTY TIMES IT'S CATCHY AND......and

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 17, 2010 3:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

No, I understand completely...it was all over the radio when I was in grad school, and it wasn't til my kids were in HS (late 90s) that in a "revival" kind of way I was exposed to them in a big way (one became a Police fanatic, though ended up in a bluegrass/folk band of all things!)...that was when I had to appreciate them: it was a give and take tween father ("here, listen to this Eleven!") and son ("here, listen to this live 'So Lonely'!") kinda thing...

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 17, 2010 3:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

best studio Copeland- Walking on the Moon?

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Apr 17, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Baba O'Reily (Roger D with the Dead, live)

hell yeah, Jumpin Jack Flash was another punk rawk seed imo

i love me some 70's early 80's stones.